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Post by Mr. Thomas on Oct 15, 2013 16:39:22 GMT -5
Post responses here.
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Post by richardliriano on Oct 15, 2013 20:13:55 GMT -5
D. “She’s too much steady, her feelings run too deep, Icarius’ daughter Penelope, that wise woman.” Agamemnon to Odysseus says this and this is a part that I enjoyed reading. I get the sense that this might lessen all the worries Odysseus has towards how his wife is doing and if she is remaining faithful to him in the first place.
G. “Only the ghost of Great Ajax, son of Telamon kept his distance.” If I put myself in the place of Ajax I would despise Odysseus as well. I mean Odysseus in a way is the cause of my death. I know I, Ajax, committed suicide but the only reason I committed suicide was because Odysseus and I were fighting over Achilles’ armor and then let the Trojans decide which one of us got it. So when they said Odysseus I was so ashamed I killed myself, and not wanting to blame myself for that I would obviously blame Odysseus for arguing over the armor in the first place. So I think I would also keep away from Odysseus when he comes to the underworld.
C. Who is Sisyphus? He wasn’t mentioned before or at least I don’t think he was. It seems like he just came out of nowhere. Why is he being punished by having to push that rock?
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Post by liamgoldfarb on Oct 16, 2013 15:49:09 GMT -5
E. Finally Odysseus takes a break in his speech and has a short conversation with the Queen and King of Phaecia. Alcinous reacted much differently than I expected him to. In class I learned that the Phaecians are somehow in someway related to Poseidon. If this is true, I don’t know why Alcinous feels so bad for Odysseus because Odysseus killed the Cyclops. The Cyclops Odysseus killed is a son of Poseidon and the Phaecians are related to Poseidon, and in a way the Cyclops. So if they are at all related I would think that King Alcinous would be somewhat upset with Odysseus actions but instead he responds positively, and embraces Odysseus.
B. Towards the end of Book 11 Odysseus describes all the little encounters he has with people such as this one: “And I also saw Minos there, illustrious son of Zeus, firmly enthroned, holding his golden scepter, judging all the dead… Some on their feet, some seated, all clustering round the king of justice, pleading for his verdicts reached in the House of Death with its all-embracing gates.” There are many other little stories about people in the House of Death that Odysseus sees, but none of them seem to be of any relevance.
C. From what I have already said I have developed a few questions. Why does Alcinous react so kindly to Odysseus? What makes him want to hear more of Oydsseus’ story? Also why does Homer include stories like the one I quoted and stories similar to it?
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Post by urenaj16 on Oct 16, 2013 17:32:21 GMT -5
E. Why is Alcinous so relaxed about Odysseus’ story, why would he not be mad that technincally Odysseus disrespected their God/forefather Poseidon? The hospitality code is really in effect here because the way they should be reacting is with hate and spite for Odysseus, I think they might either be tricking him as they wait to tell Poseidon that they “caught” him, or they’re just being genuinely nice with him because they respect him and understand what he’s been through. I don’t really understand the Phaeacians in this situation, but I’m going to be wary over the next couple of books to see what their course of action may be; hopefully this is really the turning point that Odysseus has been waiting for, these might the group of people that actually send him on a straight path to Ithaca.
D. From lines 484-492, I found Agamemnon’s bitterness towards women hysterical, but kind of appropriate that he’s still holding a grudge against his wife for killing him. It’s still funny how he blames all women for his downfall, when he’s really just incredibly angry at his wife for plotting against him, even though it was pretty much his fault for sacrificing their daughter.
F. I find it surprising how much respect Odysseus still has for Achilles, Ajax, Agamemnon etc., I mean all of those men died and he’s still interacting with them and pretty much praising them as if they were still alive and in charge of him; Odysseus really does admire these men, even in their death.
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Post by Ben Ezquerra on Oct 16, 2013 17:50:02 GMT -5
E. In the middle of this reading, Odysseus finally stops talking after about three books, which I think in real time would be at least about 4 hours worth of talking. In the pause, Alcinous actually seems to like the story that he is telling, which I find interesting. I thought that as soon as Odysseys mentioned that Poseidon was trying to kill him for a good amount of time, Alcinous would turn hostile towards him and command his people to imprision him because his whole family descended from Poseidon. Turns out he was pretty nice about it and even seemed to ignore the fact that one of the most powerful gods and his ancestor, Poseidon, wanted this guy dead. I. In response to richardliriano: Sisyphus is not a part of the Odyssey. I think this is the only time that he was mentioned. He was a very important person when he was alive but did some horrible things, so as punisent, the three judges (one of which was Minos) sentenced him to push a big round rock up the hill. They gave him the urge because once the punisent was accomplished, he could go with the other souls and didn't have to suffer anymore, but the catch was that just as he about to reach the top of the hill, the rock became heavier and so would roll down all the way to the bottom. I. In response to liamgoldfarb: I think thy Alcinous reacts kindly to Odysseus because of the Greek custom and also because Odysseus was a charming person who could get inside people's heads. This, and his very good speech skills, makes Alcinous and the other people still be interested even after they found out about his feud with Piseidon and after he rambled on for about 4 hours (keep in mind this was all happening the same day as the competitions, so it's probably the middle of the night)
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andro
New Member
Posts: 42
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Post by andro on Oct 16, 2013 19:41:30 GMT -5
E. Oddysseus finally stops taking about the three books. He's been talking about them for a long time! Alcinous is brought into the book and there is much about him. Odysseus tells Alcinous about how Poseidon hates him and wants him dead. Since Alcinous and his people are family to Poseidon, I would think he would hate Oddyssses. but he likes his story and finds it interesting. Alcinous respects Oddysseus now and likes him. I find this confusing though. C. The only thing that confuses me is that Alcinous likes Oddysseus. Since Oddysseus and Poseidon hate each other, wouldn't Alcinous too?Like if someone hates my dad, I wouldn't like them or have respect for them, we'll depending the reason. Why doesn't Alcinous hate Oddysseus? I don't understand, a bit confusing....... F. Oddysseus has a lot of respect for many people. Whether they are dead or alive, he still likes them. For example, Ajax is dead, committed suicide and Oddysseus is kind of the reason Ajax is dead, and he still has respect for him?He also has respect for Agamemnon. Bottom line is that Oddysseus respects many people, whether they are dead or alive. Or whether they hate him or not.
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loweryj
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 50
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Post by loweryj on Oct 16, 2013 20:01:31 GMT -5
E. This chapter has proven to serve as a breakaway from many of the earlier parts in the book. This chapter has proven to be different from the other parts of this book, because Odysseus breaks from the story of how he comes to Phaeacia. He starts to participate in a conversation with the King and Queen of Phaeacia. This right when everyone starts to get into the story. The person who really likes this story the most is King Alcinous. He’s really into this story more than other people. I don’t understand why he is so interested in this story, especially when he talks about Poseidon. As I read this passage, I was wondering if he just blanked out each time Odysseus spoke about how Poseidon tried to kill him. You can’t just gloss over those types of statements. C. I must be missing a key part of the reading. Odysseus has told most of his story. He has spoken about how bad Poseidon is and how he has tried to kill him. Alcinous must not have gotten the memo because he liked the story and enjoyed it. Wouldn’t he try to kill Odysseus for talking about his relative? I don’t understand. It’s like someone shooting your mother in the toe and you not shoot him straight through the heart. I don’t understand why he he isn’t offended and doesn’t fight. I. To Richard Liriano – I believe this was the only time that he was mentioned in the story. I don’t believe he is a main or major character in the Odyssey.
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Post by andrewbotti on Oct 16, 2013 20:01:49 GMT -5
C) I don’t understand why Alcinous doesn’t get upset about everything Odysseus is saying. Odysseus tells of him killing the Cyclops and doing Poseidon wrong. Poseidon is Alcinous’ god and I figured he would be treated as such. This is not the first time I have not understood why the people were not upset with Odysseus. The Phaecians seemed to be perfectly fine with him telling the story about Poseidon despising him earlier in the book. So the question and my confusion is still out there. Why are Alcinous and the rest of Phaecians okay with Odysseus telling them about Poseidon hating him? D) “And I saw Sisyphus too, bound too his own torture, grappling his monstrous boulder with both arms working, heaving, hands struggling, legs driving, he kept on thrusting the rock uphill toward the brink, but just as it teetered, set to topple over.” I have never heard of Sisyphus, but he seems like an important person. He must have done something really bad to be having to do all these terrible things that are being described. It seems like he is being punished. There is a whole paragraph just talking about him struggling. I do not understand why he is struggling or who he is. E) Odysseus pauses in this half of Book Eleven. This is the first time he has stopped telling his story in a very long while. Arete is also impressed with him during the pause and insists that they do not let him leave quite yet.
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Post by IceJJStokes16 on Oct 16, 2013 20:13:56 GMT -5
E. Agamemnon still seems to be a self-centered scumbag. He seems to ignore the fact that he was always in the wrong when he was alive. He murdered his daughter he constantly complained when he didn’t get what he wanted, and he was very inefficient as a leader. I’m surprised that he doesn’t trust women anymore when he wasn’t someone you wanted to trust in general. His actions made him out to be below the ideal of a leader and when he was murdered by his wife he lost trust in all women, but his wife couldn’t trust him enough as I’m sure most people couldn’t either. I’m sure everyone was thinking good riddance as someone like him wasn’t what you wanted leading you into battle. C. Why was Achilles so disappointed with death? He had proven so well that he was the greatest warrior of all time, yet when people mentioned how brave and how much he earned afterlife he seems to scoff and tell them how much it sucks. Maybe he shouldn’t have been so full of himself when going into battle and he’d still be around. Running around without armor isn’t always the safest thing to do even when you are untouchable everywhere but the one place that you were shot in leading to your death. Either way though he showed that he was one of if not the best warrior in Greek history and he deserved to be praised instead of blowing it off and complaining about death. F. It’s surprising Aias hasn’t forgiven Odysseus since death. Just because a couple of captives thought Odysseus was a better warrior doesn’t mean you should kill yourself and hold a grudge forever, that just doesn’t seem like the best idea and it doesn’t bode well for you if you live life this way. Sort of like Agamemnon but he killed himself when he didn’t get what he wanted instead of demanding it.
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Post by johnnydriza on Oct 16, 2013 21:07:09 GMT -5
C. I must be missing a key part of the reading. Odysseus has told most of his story. He has spoken about how bad Poseidon is and how he has tried to kill him. Alcinous must not have gotten the memo because he liked the story and enjoyed it. Wouldn’t he try to kill Odysseus for talking about his relative? I don’t understand. It’s like someone shooting your mother in the toe and you not shoot him straight through the heart. I don’t understand why he he isn’t offended and doesn’t fight.
I. liamgoldfarb: I think thy Alcinous reacts kindly to Odysseus because of the Greek custom and also because Odysseus was a charming person who could get inside people's heads. This, and his very good speech skills, makes Alcinous and the other people still be interested even after they found out about his feud with Poseidon and after he rambled on for about 4 hours.
E. Why is Alcinous so relaxed about Odysseus’ story, why would he not be mad that technincally Odysseus disrespected their God/forefather Poseidon? The hospitality code is really in effect here because the way they should be reacting is with hate and spite for Odysseus, I think they might either be tricking him as they wait to tell Poseidon that they “caught” him, or they’re just being genuinely nice with him because they respect him and understand what he’s been through. I don’t really understand the Phaeacians in this situation, but I’m going to be wary over the next couple of books to see what their course of action may be; hopefully this is really the turning point that Odysseus has been waiting for, these might the group of people that actually send him on a straight path to Ithaca.
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Post by thomasclark16 on Oct 16, 2013 21:33:25 GMT -5
E) I don’t understand why when Odysseus finished his story all the Phaeacians kept asking for more. Especially cause Poseidon and Odysseus are enemies. I realize that he must be viewed as a brave hero but is he really that interesting. I also assume that Odysseus has a great memory because he is re-telling vivid memories that are suppose to be from years ago. I feel that through this Odysseus grows more pride in himself as he has a audience. Also Odysseus seems to be very honest about how he feels about being away from home. He mentioned how he doesn’t know where his son is and even if he is alive or dead. Throughout the book Odysseus has shown emotional actions. C) Why does Odysseus continue to tell stories to the Phaeacians after he finishes with one? Doesn’t he want to get back with his family in his home of Ithaca? Also was the Horse Odysseus was telling Alicnous about, the Trojan Horse? D) “ But my wife-she never even let me feast my eyes on my own son; she killed me first, his father!” I feel that this quote helps me understand why Odysseus is so anxious to see his son again. But can this also mean that he wishes not to return to his wife after what she did before he left?
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Post by justinalexander on Oct 16, 2013 21:49:26 GMT -5
C. Who is this character Sisyphus? Why does he randomly appear in the epic? Where is he from? How did he get down there? Is he a more important character later in the epic? Has he appeared in The Mycenaean Saga or any prequels to The Odyssey? Why is he being punished? Did he have problems with any gods? If so is this the reason why he is being punished? E) While reading, I found Odysseus still praised and honored great warriors who had died to be interesting. When Odysseus, interacted with this warriors, He still showed great respect and honor to them. Odysseus is actually still praising these dead men as if they are still alive. Surprising, Odysseus still honors Agamemnon and Ajax, two warriors who have reasons to dislike him. However, in life or death, in love or hate, Odysseus still has respect and praise for all these deceased warriors. I) liamgoldfarb I feel that the reason why Alcinous reacts kindly to Odysseus is because either he has respect for Odysseus or it is because of their culture. It could also be because Odysseus’ characteristics of being appealing to many people. Maybe even Athena helped him to make him appear more appealing to Alcinous without it being mentioned in the epic. I feel Homer might include these stories to give a better mental image of events or characters to readers. Either though it is a story Homer probably wants his audience to be able to visualize and truly enjoy his stories or epics.
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Post by jamespodias on Oct 17, 2013 0:02:01 GMT -5
E. The end of chapter eleven differs from the past couple of chapters as Odysseus takes a break from telling his story. When he concludes I am surprised by the reaction of the Phaecians. It seemed they did not express any anger or hostility to him but only more interest in him. King Alcinous especially showed attention to Odysseus as them two and the queen had a conversation. But as this is going on I am thinking about the relationship between Poseidon and the Phaecians. Aren’t they related? If so why would they keep offering kindness to Odysseus? This begins to make me question the true relationship between Poseidon and the Phaecians. B. As Odysseus sails away at the end of the chapter I begin to think that may not have been the best decision for him and will affect him later on in the book. We questioned Poseidon’s whereabouts while Odysseus was in Phaecia and did not here of him. Although the Phaecians and Poseidon do have some relationship this makes me think was it a bad one and thus causing Poseidon to stay away? But now that he is leaving he may be in trouble. C. Odysseus had been telling his story for probably quite some time now but after stopping and wanting to go to sleep the Phaecians tell him to continue and tell them of great Greeks who died in troy which he does. I am confused why he continued in the first place. If I were him I had stopped a long time ago because it is such a long and grueling story and he also has no reason to continue so why do it?
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Post by crocketts16 on Oct 17, 2013 10:40:42 GMT -5
F. I believe that the Phaecians are good trusting people. They just met Odysseus and after his story they say how he has earned their trust and that he is not the type of man to fraud them.
C. The Book previously stated that the Phaecians are made up of many of Poseidon’s children. If this is so, then why do thy not mind that Odysseus blinded Poseidon’s Cyclops son which makes the Cyclops their brother? Should they not have been angered by this and seek vengeance?
E. When Odysseus ends his story. The Phaecians act quite differently then expected. I’m not 100% sure but I interpreted that they didn’t believe Odysseus’ story until the Queen stated that he is trustworthy and that they should believe him. Also, Alcinous reacted much differently than I expected him to. He is supposed do be related to Poseidon correct? So why does Alcinous feel so bad for Odysseus if this is all happening because he harmed the kings cyclops brother. You would think that this would aggravate the king but instead he responds positively, and embraces Odysseus. -Shane Crockett
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Post by mikealiberti on Oct 17, 2013 11:02:08 GMT -5
D. “The fuller my arms on landing there at home, the more respected, well received I’d be by all who saw me sailing back to Ithaca. Ah Odysseus,” Alcinous replied, `”one look at you and we know that you are no one who would cheat us- no fraud, such as the dark soil breeds and spreads across the face of the earth these days.” This quote caught my attention because it was taking place when Odysseus was talking to the king and queen of Phaecia about stopping his journey and resting. King Alcinous encouraged him that he must carry on with his destiny and do what needs to be done. E. In this portion of Book 11 Odysseus was very observant while he was in the underworld. He met many different people including Achilles and Agamemnon. Agamemnon was telling Odysseus of how he was murdered by his wife and Achilles asked how is son was doing. Odysseus was also gathering information of how he needs to do things in order to complete what he set out to do. C. While Odysseus was in the underworld I did not understand why he came in contact with the people that he did. I did not understand why he came into contact with the hunter of Orion or King Minos. I did not catch on to this because I understood while he talked to the people who would help him in the long run of completing what he needs to do.
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